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In Lehmberg we trust

Compared to most people who reply to the Odd Emperor, this fellow is a class act. I sent him my standard greeting along with my review of his webpage - his comments were very interesting and more than a littel provocotive. Now you have to understand that I had just looked at Mr. Lehmberg's site. The Odd Emperor is not running some pipsqueek PC on a crappy 56,000 bd modem. My fast pipe and P4 machine choked on this web page, it was so full of garish colors and flashing backgrounds.... See for yourself! But don't blame me if your piddlelly Tweety-Bird P2 blows up and needs to be rebooted before you leave there. Anyway the fracas started with this note from the Odd Emperor to Mr. Lehmberg. ..

> Your webpage Alien Views Forum has been inducted into
> the Empire of the Odd with the following comment;
> > Alien Views Forum >

> Boy I'll say, not the ones from outer space mind you
> but the really strange views from inside a person's
> head. This site is one I classify as "spewing". Not
> that I rightly understand what the author is spewing
> about. His prose if you can call it that is as random
> as the type faces or the annoying colors he uses. This
> site is kind of like looking into the mind of a
> madman. Not a pretty sight!

> > ===== > Sincerely;
> > The Odd Emperor
> http:****

He replied

Well -- there we have it. An artless, insulting, and
inauspicious little assessment from one that must not know that
when he points -one- finger of ignorant accusation, he invariably
points -three- back at himself. This is forgetting, of course,
that all your *taste* may only be your mouth, sir. I trust this
was "understandable" enough?

...and -thanks- for reading.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Whoh!
this fellow is good! Vulger, subtle and crude at the same time! That's
a neat trick indeed. Here is how I responded..

>Whooo > ho! You rock!

Artless is it? Who ever said that the Empire of the Odd is art? But ignorant its not unless you simply call any difference of opinion ignorant.

I call that in itself ignorant, but what do I know. I’m insane and so is the rest of reality, correct?

Odd Emperor

Not my best work to be true. Here is how he responded.

Ahhhhhhmmmmmmmm-no. And what could be more pathetically futile,meaningless, and charmlessly -inept- than critique without citation, proclamation without substance, and attack without justification? You come off like tasteless whitebreadz --stridently and obnoxiously ignorant, reactionary and (at best)cognitively indifferent, plus you end up saying a lot moreabout -yourself- than you ever do about -me-. You haveno -position-, apparently, forgetting a wealth of equallyapparent reflexive *opinion*, and your *opinion* (such as it is)seems dry as old chalk dust... as insulting and mean-spirited asit seems to be. I defend your right to an *opinion*, of course,just as I'm sure you'd defend my right to sneer at it, in turn.... But you have no art. We agree on that. Read on.
Lehmberg@snowhill.com

I like this guy, really. He knows how to insult an idea without insulting the person, just that he forgets sometime.

Very impressive, most people don't even know how to do that.
I reply;

My justification is exactly what it looks like. You have a web page full of inane blathering wrapped around the most annoying - contrasting colors imaginable. My citation is "this is *my* opinion".

Since I don't like the look of your so called "art" I come across as tasteless? I'm delighted! Art is what you like and I do not like yours. So? Where is the argument?

Odd Emperor

He actually toned down his page a bit and computers can now deal with all the animated just he throws across the screen. This is what it looked like back in 2001 Here it is today

Like I said ...

**

A little disappointing, I did some research o on this fellow and discovered that his bellicose style and so called "whit" are well known on many a usenet group around the Internet.

**

As regards you? That would be where the sun doesn't shine! But you know what you like, eh? All you -earn- is a sneer, hoss. The charge was insanity -- "mind of a madman", I think you puled... where is your citation for that? I've got a suspicion that you're something -less- than competent to make that call -- and at first blush? It's libelous. That's the thing about the web, junior... as regards you, you open your mouth, insert your foot -- and then echo internationally. How "bright" is that?

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

**

----- Original Message ----- From: Odd Empire To: Alfred Lehmberg Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 8:51 AM Subject: Re: Odd Empire update

Actually the quote was. “This site is kind of like looking into the mind of a madman. Not a pretty sight! “ Do you disagree with that assessment of your webpage? I would be fascinated to hear what you believe the intent of your page is because I have no clue. Honestly; I read that stuff and cannot figure out what you are getting at. Once again you seem to be getting riled up regarding one’s *opinion* regarding content that you have chosen to display. You have become bellicose and *personally * insulting in response to my opinion *of your web site*. And now you are trying to threaten me! Very doubleplus-uncool methinks. Do you wish me to change my opinion or rewrite my critique of your web page? Or are you going to just continue to spew vitriol at me?

Odd Emperor.

Now he goes into true debate mode. My responces are the ones with the little greater than (>) symbol next to them.

If I have a choice? I'll just spew vitriol, as you get a bigger charge out of it then I do, apparently. [g].

.

> You have a choice, we all have choices; I don't know
> about who gets a bigger charge out of this sort of
> exchange though, or perhaps I know very well ; )

What choice, responding appropriately to an opening gambit of untalented insult? Or insulting you! That's a choice? All of it so unnecessary. And don't flatter yourself. All you are is a sure cure for writer's block incurred on the review of a piece I'm doing on James Fox's latest UFO film because I'm conflicted about it. Otherwise we wouldn't even be having this conversation... as you are so numbingly tedious, arrogantly obstinate, and likely, cognitively dissonant.

>

> As for stones, I suspect you have a dump truck full of
> them. (Now don't take that personally, it's just an
> expression meaning that you seem have a lot of
> practice insulting people.) (You could call me "boyo"
> or "nimrod". That would make me feel all warm and
> fuzzy inside!)

Why? Because -you- are insulted by me... largely because I'm outside your little box and so you are probably anticipating my flying off the handle, finally, to your reactionary criticism, and -call- you the piss-wit or nymrod you only think (hope) I want to call you?

> And yes I am younger than you, so? Why do you keep
> bringing it up? Do you think calling me junior is
> disrespecting me somehow?

No disrespect. An assessment. An observation. A criticism on your inadequate and immature criticism. Your critique is immature. It -remains- that you are too.

> I think your opinions are pretty cool.

Oh gee! We're bring that up now in the, what is it? Fourth round? Think how much more communicative this whole exchange might have gone if you had started this little exercise with: "Hey! I think your opinions are pretty cool, BUT..." Have you got the imagination for that?

>But you seem to
> have a problem separating a thing from a person.

My *problem* is officious little busy-bodies who haven't read the period of their thinking and who won't take responsibility for what they start. Well forget for a moment that -you're- not competent to tell me what my problems are

He's got a point there.

>As an
> artist I can see why you would be upset when someone
> has an opinion or a criticism regarding your work.

You mean -you- are an artist? And if you are, -and- you are irritated by criticisms of your work... you can *understand* why I would be irritated with criticism of my work? Look hoss --I've never had a problem with -constructive- criticism. You apparently do. Be that as it may? This was unintelligible. The alternative is that you think all artists don't like their workcriticized. This tells me that you arte not an artist. Both statements are really dumb... tres un-cool. Try to be more clear.

This was particularly, funny. I was not irritated with this fellow even slightly.

As a matter of record, I happen to be the worst critic in the world, to my own work. He seemed to be reading an awful lot of his own emotion into the conversation.

> Don't worry! I know of some people who make a career
> out of tossing ad-homonyms when they are undeserved.

...and you've learned your lessons well? If you can't please
everyone... then you've got to please yourself?

> Note that I have not attempted to critique your
> paintings or your artwork. I find your web page ugly
> and your writing .strange. but I suspect most people
> do. So what?

Ammmmnn-no, actually. My pros outweigh my cons seven to one
based on hundreds of letters I've gotten since '97 and I
keep -all- the bad ones and only a large fraction of the good.
We can add -that- to the growing list of things you're wrong
about. I wouldn't have brought it up but it was -your-
assertion. Most people "get it," and you don't. So what

>

> My intent with the Odd Empire site is to respond
> honestly to the huge piles of junk within the Fortean
> realm, something that I am actually interested in. I
> have found that many people seem to want nothing more
> than to stand on a rock and blather the most inane
> things imaginable without a shred of citation. My site
> simply points out those who *in my opinion* have
> crossed the lines of the absurd.

Sounds like a good idea for a site... you ought to,
actually, -do- it.

This translates into the old whine "It OK criticize, just don't criticize me!"

>

> Empire of the Odd is also a HUMOR SITE! Or did you
> not understand that?

I think -you- would be -astonished- at what I am capable of
understanding.

> I find it regretful that you seem
> to take this so personally,

What? "You're crazy" and "you produce ugly stuff" and "you spew
senseless blather" ...them's some busy words, hoss, And what I
find regretful is that you find this merely regretful.

> so much that you find the
> need to hurl insults and veiled threats.

No insults! Statements of observation. I'm not surprised you
don't see the difference. Moreover, the only person perceiving
threat in this two person (but very one sided) discussion is you.
More's the pity. Additionally, the mere mention of the word
"libel" used in definitive context does not constitute a threat,
junior, reminding you that "junior" constitutes an evaluation on
the maturity of your argument and criticism and not -you-
personally. If you -are- insulted... well -- I can't help that,
and I'm not that interested in helping it at this point. I don't
care what -you- say about me.

> And you do
> care, very much it would seem. Way too much but that
> is my opinion as well.

I think you have a clear idea of my evaluation on the value
of -your- opinion. I don't think you yet know what to
care -about-. But that's just -my- opinion...

> BTW, I have changed the wording slightly on the
> comments regarding your page. Nothing too extensive
> but I dislike using the word site and "sight" in the
> same sentence, clumsy that.

...Just add it to the likely expansive list of things you are
wrong and clumsy about.

>

> Odd Emperor.

>

Have you got a name? Supply it or I'm going to start referring
to you as "Nymrod the Odd"

**

>I'm very glad to have helped your writers block! Good luck on your review! I >need to duck out now so I can look up the definition of cognitively >dissonant.

>Odd Emperor.

Just an observation, remember, not an insult... and having to "duck out" or not still means you're not coming out of your corner in the debate. Good thing, too! There are some "Mutual of Omaha -- Wild Kingdom" re-runs coming on TV and I don't know -when- I'd have ever gotten back to you... How does it feel to be held second to Marlin Perkins, "Pynrod the Odd"?

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Actually, I suspect he was getting a little sick of the debate (what little debate was going on here), the "duck out" thing was simply that I had to be away from my terminal for a few hours. But it gave him an out of the conversation.

>You say potaato and I say potato. You say observation I call it spewing. OK; >you are correct. You are not insulting. You have actually not insulted me at >all. You have resorted to name calling which is insulting to fourth graders >and (I would think) embarrassing for adults to feel they need to resort to >that. And what debate is this? I say that you have a silly web page and you >call me names. That’s a debate? If so then I want you on the other team! I >would be happy to debate anything you like. So far I have seen no evidence >that you even understand what a debate is let alone be able to construct >one.

>Odd Emperor.