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Conversations with a thin-skinnned Garu

I was somewhat aware of Mr Gilliard and his Self-Mastery Earth Institute, a new age study and self help camp located in Oregon. He blathers about all manner of paranormal and conspiracy subjects on a number of email lists. I dared to answer on of his emails and this was his reaction. This was something I wrote long before the Empire of the Odd even existed actually.

James GillilandSelf-Mastery Earth InstituteTrout Lake, Washington(509) 395-2092     http://www.cazekiel.orgBy: James Gilliland; Self-Mastery Earth Institute; PO Box 281, Hood River,
Oregon 97031; 509) 395-2092 http://www.cazekiel.org

It has come to our attention on a regular basis that many people in the field of Ufology who consider themselves investigators or experts on the subject seem to miss the basics. To comment on the authenticity of a sighting or contact without investigation is completely illogical. It would be like giving an expert opinion on a new model car having no information about the drive train or a picture of the vehicle. Any statement would be made on emotional bias or hearsay. To investigate would mean to speak with eyewitnesses, look at any pictures, videos if possible, other physical evidence if possible and then make an informed intelligent assessment of the situation.

We are assaulted constantly by people who have done none of the above, which includes certain UFO investigators and reporting centers. Having not looked at the evidence or investigated, the only informed intelligent statement that can me made is, "I have heard about the sightings and contact and I need to investigate". To try to debunk or discredit without investigation or refuse to report sightings is a show of ignorance and ill intent from the very beginning.

Some demand proof. They demand that we provide to them personally all of the data which covers 700 witnesses to many now to document, photos taken by guests and UFO investigators and now over 11 hours of day and night video footage with sound. They also demand we pay for all of it, the production costs including time, expenses, the equipment and ship it to them ASAP all free. If we do not do so they scream fraud. If we ask for donations to cover expenses they yell charlatan.

It is getting real old. The groups that are getting the funding that have the resources to make this information available to the public, like SETI and NASA, also refuse to investigate. So what does one do when the supposedly top people in the field of investigation and reporting refuse to investigate and yell fraud, charlatan, ridicule and slander acting like spoiled children. One does the best one can with the limited resources at hand which is what we have been doing.

We wonder why the benevolent spiritually and technologically advanced off world visitors have chosen to quarantine the Earth and for the most part keep their distance staying hidden in the clouds or phased out of our ability to detect them. We wonder why we never hear of the contacts especially those of an advanced ultrterrestrial or spiritual nature. We wonder why people give up and walk away from events that could change the course of human destiny.

The reason is due to the behavior of many of the very people who deem themselves the ones to bring this information to the public. Those that refuse to investigate, report, work together and would rather indulge in petty bickering competition and one-upmanship.

If we are ever going to have a contact with an advanced off world race we are going to have to get our own act together. We are going to have to end the censorship, the power struggles competition and emotional bias. A little truth, honesty and integrity is in order as well as a little common sense.

For those who do not understand the basics it is quite simple.

1. With out investigation it is impossible to make an informed intelligent assessment or comment as to the authenticity of an event

2. With out funding it is ridiculous and most arrogant to demand the mountain of evidence be produced, duplicated and put in your hot little hand

3. If we are ever going to have full blown contact as a civilization we are going to have to grow up and stop acting so primitive


4. If we are ever going to get the information out to the public it is going to take funding. Serious funding to provide for equipment to document the events, production costs, distribution costs etc..

These are all NO BRAINERS.

Those who resort to slander, ridicule, debunking, disinformation refuse to report legitimate sightings, censor information and those who do not investigate yet make uninformed ignorant and emotionally bias statements are part of the problem not part of the solution. It is time to take stock in our own personal agendas and motives and choose truth with unbiased investigation as a prime directive if we are ever going to solve the UFO Enigma.

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This was published to a public mail list. I replied to this article not knowing exactly who this Gillard character was (I had heard of him but had never bothered to find out more than a brief “this guy thinks he talks to aliens”. So what? Lots of people make that claim. Here is my first reply to the above posting.

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As one who is often called a dubunker (I'm actually a skeptic but
people get confused), please allow me to respond to your missive;

Your four points;

  1. With out investigation it is impossible to make an informed
  intelligent assessment or comment as to the authenticity of an
  event

Very correct! This is as true when examining some known phenomena say
the weather or something unknown like ghosts or UFOs.

 
  2. Without funding it is ridiculous and most arrogant to demand
  the mountain of evidence be produced, duplicated and put in your
  hot little hand

Also correct! You have no obligation to return services without
payment.

 
  3. If we are ever going to have full blown contact as a
  civilization we are going to have to grow up and stop acting so
  primitive
 

OK, now you have lost me. Contact with whom? To contact some entity
or intelligence off of the Earth, one would think one would first
have to establish that such an intelligence exists.

  4. If we are ever going to get the information out to the public it
  is going to take funding. Serious funding to provide for equipment
  to document the events, production costs, distribution costs etc..
 

Correct, no argument but, why do you want to get your information
out? Are your reasons important enough to obtain funding yourself or
find some way to get donations? You must examine your own motives for
wanting this, no one else is going to do that for you.

You have a very interesting opinion of the "state" of UFO research.
Some of what you say is correct and I am quick to agree with you.
Some of your statements do not seem to reflect what I might call
responsible research. Your statements suggest that you have made up
your mind regarding the origins, motives and intent of, as you say on
your site "benevolent, spiritually and technologically advanced ETs."
If you approach any sort of research with you mind already made up
you are in fact not doing research at all.

If you try to tell me that you have contacted extra-terrestrials I
will ask you to prove it. This is because you as the claimant, the
burden of proof for me to believe you. The problem is, proving
something far-out takes far-out proof. Far-out proof cannot be
transmitted on the Internet. No photo, no elaborate document, no
impassioned plea is enough to convince other than the gullible of
what you say. That is the sad truth of this business. The few people
who are really doing research are largely ignored because what they
are finding is very boring and no one likes a bunch of stale facts
and figures. But that's how real research works.

What I am saying in plain English is, convince me! What sort of
evidence do you have?

O.E. (Actually I signed it anther way back then, if you are geeky enough you can look it up for yourself)

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There is a section missing here, I got a reply that was more or less polite and seemd to be attempting to draw me into Mr Gillians cult and at the same time chewed me out for even thinking of question his god given insight or whatever he has. It's around somewhere, eventually I will include it .

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I reply;

With all due respect sir, I suspect that I understand you very well indeed. What I do not understand is how you expect me (a skeptic) to take a leap of faith and simple sign off on your assertions without a shred of evidence.

You seem to have made one error. I have not demanded you to turn over evidence to me. What I have said is, "for me to believe many of your assertions I will require more than simply your word". There! That's pretty simple is it not?. I have no motive to demand anything from you - consequently I will not necessarily believe you either. You are the one who (apparently) wishes for me to take your word on
anything that you say. You seem frustrated when I simply refuse to do so. I have suggested that if *you* wish to convince me than you certainly can. One way is to find some way to discover this information on my own. In other words, how can I duplicate your findings?

You seem to have a problem with skeptics not "doing their part in the investigation." OK, I will do my own investigation and actually have been for quite some time. My findings are far different than yours. Why? because this phenomena seems to be highly subjective, or in other words, everyone sees it differently. This is why conventional thinking
falls short, much of this phenomena is illogical.

Also; I investigate because I AM a skeptic and do not buy into all of those people who say that anomalous phenomena is all bunk - I have seen evidence to the contrary, just like that I do not buy into what you are asserting without something a little more substantial than just your word.

have fun!

(OE)

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Once again he immediately goes on the defensive.

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  Dear (O.E) , Have you seen the site and the pictures on the site?

Yes I have, they resemble photos I took when I was a teen. I'm not too impressed frankly because I'm very familiar with this technology and there is nothing on your site that I could not cook up myself if I wished to. (Actually I could do much better.)
.
  Have you
  seen the video? Have you investigated the contacts and sightings?   Did you not say the burden of proof is on my shoulders and far out claims takes far out proof yet there was no attempt to secure the proof.

Excuse me? You want me to verify you’re work?

I have no obligation to make any attempt to prove or disprove anything that you have said or are saying now. Why should I? I'm not planning on joining your religion. I have no personal stake in your claims. Since you cannot even answer a simple question I suspect that you have no way of verifying what you say either.

The statement "the burden of proof lies on the claimant" is still true. You can huff and puff about my obligations to prove your claims but the fact remains - if you want to prove something to someone than YOU need to figure out what would be compelling. If you want to impress me than YOU must find out what is compelling to me.

Again   we have the delima which you have acted out to the tee. This is base logic not rocket science. Again you cannot make an informed intelligent comment on the subject until you investigate.

Agreed. Your last sentence is correct. I have investigated you're claims as far as I am able. I find that many of you're claims seem unsubstantiated and perhaps downright false. Your site seems to be connected with some sort of religious study venture which makes me wonder if you motive is not profit based. (that's putting it mildly.)

  Skeptic is another word   for closed mind or fixed ideas based on the ego driven intellect.

Here you are dead wrong. I use the word "skeptic" in the accepted English definition. "Skepticism, n. The doctrine that the truth of all knowledge must always be in question" (Webster's NDW.) I am not closed minded at all, simply not gullible which could be the antonym
of a skeptic. Skeptics tend to question some of the truths we take for granted. You accuse a skeptic of closed-mindedness simply because they don't agree with you. If so I would closely examine how open minded you are before passing judgment on another.


BTW, you're last statement sounds suspiciously close to some of the late L. Ron Hubbard’s writings. Are you associated in some way with the church of Scientology?

  Personally I am skeptical about all the recycled ignorance people today call knowledge upon which they base their limited reality upon and those who are lead to water and refuse to drink demanding there is no water.

That is a huge sweeping statement!. You seem to embrace certain segments of this knowledge while discarding others. You utilize the Internet (a government sponsored program) and at the same time accuse the US government of a range from suppressing technology to purposely
attacking your computer! Make up you're mind! The two concepts are diametrically opposed!

Incidentally, I have seen exactly the same things happen on many a PC that was not secured properly. It's much easier to claim outside attack when a PC gets mucked-up instead of telling the truth. This is something I am qualified to say. If you like I can run a scan on your
server and let you know where the holes are. The best thing to do is get some competent MIS guys and you should not have any more problems.

  Check out the pictures on the site. Check out the MPGS the JPGS and   in a couple of days a full report will be up by real investigators.   Those who can make informed intelligent assesments because they   took the time to search for the truth.

If they are credible researchers than I will be dually impressed.

  Skeptics do not want proof. What they want is to remain in their   present understanding and often arrogantly make statements from   positions of assumed authority. This is why new knowledge often is suppressed or never sees the light of day do to the mountain of ignorance from which it has to surface. Good day sir. Smile

Another sweeping statement. I make statements within my own knowledge base and can prove anything that I assert. You may be making statements based on your very different knowledge base but so far you
have not even come close to qualifying any of your assertions. Big difference methinks.

Good day to you! I hope you're venture works!BTW, please let me know if you are planing to re-publish this
exchange, you have my permission to do so but only if you inform me of such intentions. Please consider this a minimal copyright notice.
Thanks!

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James’s reply to me, he is apparently getting a little upset. Now admittedly I’m baiting him somewhat but, he seems totally unprepared for any argument whatsoever. That’s kinda risky behavior for someone who trumpets the kind of guff he does on open Internet channels.

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Obviously you are so puffed up in your own self importance there is
nothing more to be said. No investigation yet full of comments. It can
be all summed up by Einstein when he said, "Condemnation without
investigation is the height of ignorance. " There is no religion here
which is an assumption on your part. No one asked you to join which is
another assumption for there are no members. I do not see how you can
consider yourself a worthy asset in the first place in your arrogant
assumption that we invited you. You really need to get real with
yourself. Are you an educator? edu? I pitty any students that come to
you for enlightenment.

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Wow Pissed off alright! Now my response.

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I'm sorry, you are really reading way too much into this. I have not
made any assumptions at all. You have made quite a few assumptions about me (mostly incorrect I might add.)

You invited comment the moment you posted your epistle onto a public list. If you are actually who and what you claim then I would imagine that indeed, nothing I have to say would have any consequence to you. But, you are steadily getting angrier at me, why? When you figure this out you will be much closer to that which you claim to seek. I bid you farewell, you have a very long road ahead of you. I sincerely hope that you can keep smiling and keep an open mind for it.

O.E.

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James “final reply”, even more angry than the last one!

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Actually I do not have time for your pompous arrogant assumptions. You
are about as far away from the truth as your ego is from spirit. If
you had a clue at all we would not be having this conversation. What is
your intent???? What are your motives??Do you even know them??? Obviously they have nothing to do with searching for the truth, investigating or any other meaningful experience. I feel sorry for you. Seriouly. You will never know what I know, experience what I have experienced and obviously your life has little meaning and is bogged down in a rut of recycled ignorance. I did not invite your comment. Your comment fell right into what the article was addressing. People who comment on events they know nothing of, do not investigate or become part of the solution. The bottom line is you are the problem and are so arrogant you cannot see past your own self importance. Now lets spell this out for you. No investigation, no informed intelligent statement. Is this to hard? How about being part of the solution Do you understand this sentence? It means to assist, help etc. The petty shots you are taking are establishing your character and your intent. Lets go back to the beginning. Did you investigate. Answer NO. Did you see the video?
Answer NO. Did you interview the 700 eyewitnesses, astrophysicist,
aeronautic engineers, pilots? Answer NO. There for the rest of this is nonsense. It is mental gymnastics, games, and shows clearly the very problem the article addtessed. I do not have time to waste when intelligent investigators are coming up and asking intelligent questions as well as assisting with the documentation and reproduction. All of which is not a part of your reality. This is the last email I will respond to. Bottom line is you are wasting valuable time, are part of the problem and
have nothing to offer other than more nonsense. Get a dog or a wife. Maybe a student that looks up to you despite yourself Smile

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Actually I did watch his videos and have not been too impressed with them either. Most are of some blurry light with people describing what they are supposed to be.  Rather thin stuff to be calling proof. As for the 700 witnesses, he has not even published a list let alone the testimony.

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The Odd Emporer wrote:
  
 Now you seem upset......
You're the one who invited me to comment. I fail to see why, honest  opinion creates so much anger in you.. Your site clearly states; "It (The Self-Mastery Earth Institute) has been recognized by many sensitive, adepts, and masters of all walks for its spiritual qualities which greatly enhance and accelerate the awakening and healing process. The Sanctuary and those who participate are dedicated to the awakening and healing of Humanity and the Earth, body, mind and spirit. Lectures, workshops, and classes are ongoing at the center." OK, this is not the description of a religious center? and "We invite you to share in the vision and creation." This is not an invitation to join your organization, so what else is it?
  
    Although you do not claim to be so, your institute appears to be
part of a revitalization movement which has become manifest in the
United States and other parts of the world. Your philosophy seems to be a mixture of Eastern, Judeo Christian and Native American beliefs..  Recently you also seem to be embracing a rather new phenomena, a  religious empowerment of the UFO phenomena with some seemingly direct cribbing of Scientology literature..
  
 Since you have chosen to use ad-homonym and insult in your conversation with me I must suspect that I am rather close to the truth. You have not once answered any question I have put to you.. Rather you seem to be trying to bull-bait and insult me. Is this what you had in mind?
  
I really have nothing against you or your institute. Organizations
 like yours have been around a long time, apparently there is a
need for such things. Your arrogant statements aside, you may actually be a sincere individual who genuinely wishes to help others. Whatever the case, you have failed in this exchange to be very convincing of anything other than what you appear to be..
  
    Have a good day sir, Its been fun!
  
O.E.

It seems some of my predictions about this fellow are coming true and I don't take much pleasure in saying so. In the several years since this exchange the Self Mastery institute has had a very rocky time. According to what Mr Gilliard writes on his mail lists they have severe money problems coupled with regular sabotage of the operation, money being stripped from their accounts, physical damage to the buildings, takedowns of his web page and other harassment.

On the one hand, judging from the strange content on his web page I cannot but understand why he would be attractive to elements of the lunatic fringe. On the other hand the Odd Emperor thinks that its really childish and stupid to harass people because of their beliefs. Telling people that I think that their stuff is "out there" is one thing. This is a little llike telling a burning man, "dude, you are on fire, did you know that?" but kicking him is just wrong.