From Aliens Ate My Buick
LET us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;
Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
The muttering retreats
Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels
And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:
Streets that follow like a tedious argument
Of insidious intent
To lead you to an overwhelming question …
Oh, do not ask, “What is it?â€Â
Let us go and make our visit.
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
– T. S. Eliot, “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock”
I imagine there are those who would take issue with me beginning a diatribe about what’s wrong with ufology with Eliot’s “Prufrock,” but I do not think it is ill-placed. Prufrock, to me, has always conjured images of that which is growing old and tired, frayed around the edges. As for the women “who come and go, talking of Michelangelo,” this calls to mind the posturing, the slick soundbytes, the rhetoric, all employed in ufology to support the unreasonable.
What do I think is wrong with ufology?
For the most part I leave skeptics alone, that is their thing and not really mine, but this guy is an exception. He seems just as whiny to me as skeptics claim the believers are. It is like some Nazi hit list. If everything on that list were followed there would be no ufology (though maybe that is the point) because he makes the assumption that everything can be studied “scientifically” and that is just not true. He also whines about how skeptics aren’t given the time of day, but it is obvious to me that he doesn’t want to give others the time of day either. So why is he complaining? If he has the truth and knowledge, why doesn’t he start his own lists and radio shows instead of complaining about others? Frankly, I think it is because he knows they would fail. There are places for skeptics out there, why doesn’t he stay within his own movement and concentrate on that rather than trying to change others? It is like those Fundamentalist Christians who feel they have to convert every Jew, Catholic and other religion they come in contact with. I have never tried to convert anyone, I don’t make lists of how the skeptics should conform to my beliefs, nor do I make fun of individual people who are skeptics. He seems to enjoy making fun of Linda Moulton Howe, but how many crop circles, cow mutilations, ufo sightings and others things has he flown to, taken samples, paid for lab analysis of? Where is his “hands on” research? Or is he just sitting at a desk, making up rules he thinks others who do such things should follow?
I have no rules for ufology. It has happened many times that things that seem unlikely are true. Sir Issac Newton discovered gravity, but it took years for most of the “scientific” community to believe in it. It was something they couldn’t see and couldn’t take samples of. The narrowness of their “scientific” minds kept them from believing the truth.
Hey Lesley, you have some good points here.
Really? What can’ be studied scientifically? I think this gentleman’s point is that there really is no field of UFOlogy (like Physics or Biology or Mathematics.) Instead you have a loose confederation of people who think they are doing something special. Some write popular books and others gush over them. Anyone coming up with a dissenting viewpoint (like Susan Clancy) get tarred and feathered. Life goes on.
Well, maybe they’re not. Have you brought any of this to his comment section? I suspect he would give you the time of day. In any case, people love to complain, what’s wrong with that?
Skeptics with their own movements? That they should just stay in their own places? Do you really mean that? Is that not just a little bigoted and prejudiced?
just saying! ; )
I guess my point is that, the sooner people give up this us against them mentality the better. There is no competition in the marketplace of ideas, unless one is selling something. The only people who fear disagreement are people who are not firm in their convictions but won’t admit that to themselves.
There are no bad idea unless you feel any idea that’s not your own is bad (lots of people in UFOlogy subscribe to that sort of illogic.) There are no them or those people. We are all into this for the same reason, because we like the subject! Some people have a different way of going about how they explore it, that’s all.
Ok, good point….
I don’t perceive him as trying to convert people, more like hes letting off a little steam from some very frustrating stuff on UFO Updates among other places. I mean how can you reconcile someone like Lehmberg who says (literally) you must believe in everything I say or DIE! with this 57 complaints against UFOlogy?Lehmberg thinks hs the most-holy-high priest of whatever is right in UFOlogy and this fellow is just saying, “hey! No youre not.” Who\’s being strange?
He is indeed (in a later post) making fun of LMH. I don’t know if it’s justified. I don’t know her very well so it’s not really incumbent on me to comment very much other than, I don’t think she’s necessarily qualified to make a proclamations on dead carcasses or any other subject like that (She’s got a masters in Mass Communications and a pretty good film maker.)Why is she doing ‘researchâ’ anyway?
(answer) Because shes an entertainer who gets paid to do pretend research into the paranormal (IMO.)
I’m sorry, Newton (1643-1727) did not discover gravity, he merely wrote about it. The Scientific community at the time was mostly made up of the Catholic Church, an organization which had a bad habit of barbecuing people who did incorrect science (against scripture and all that.) It was during his period that the influence of the Church waned and real science, something that had almost been forgotten was re-introduced.
Science is not about making you believe in something in any case. Science is not about belief at all. It can’t be. You see, science is nothing but a process whereby errors are detected and eliminated from a system. That’s all it does! That’s all it can do!
Science doesn’t care if you believe no more than gravity does. You can disbelieve gravity and still get turned into mush if you jump off a cliff. You can disbelieve science but it’s still the only process that actually works, when it’s applied rigorously. Those are the facts, you want proof?
Are you living in a tribal, hunter-gatherer society today? Did you wake up in a hammock that you wove yourself? When you communicated with me did you use a computer or magic? Did your boyfriend bring you meat he hunted with a spear or did you go to the grocery store? Real research, science and engineering achieved all of those things, not magic, not aliens and not wishful thinking.
Take care.
I am the last to bash science OE, but it cannot explain everything. If I see a ufo, little men look out the window in Nazi uniforms and flip me off and then it takes off, there is no way to scientifically prove that happened. Even if I have a photo, they may prove that the photo is real, but they can’t prove what it was.
I know several scientists who now have patented technologies precisely because they didn’t follow the “laws” of science and instead tried something different. Don’t kid yourself, scientists still have their preconceived notions of how things work just as they did in Newton’s day. Science is wonderful and helps us in many ways, but it doesn’t know everything just yet and it may never.
I do actually know Linda and she may not be a scientist, but she is one of the few people who spends time flying around and taking samples which she sends to labs for testing. I have never heard Linda make a proclamation on anything, she reports the findings and it is up to you to decide. It is no different than the reporting she did for CNN or anywhere else, it is just about a different type of subject.
You get me wrong it isn’t that I care where the skeptics choose to hang out, but if I were a skeptic I don’t see the reason to join something like ufo updates or to fuss about what goes on with LMH or c2c. I wouldn’t join a skeptic group being that I wouldn’t fit in there and it would only irritate me, so I don’t understand what this person expects from ufo updates or other groups where most of the people are “believers.” I guess to me it is like an atheist joining a Christian group and then whining that nobody excepts his point of view. If this bothers this person so much that he has to write long posts on what is wrong with it, why doesn’t he start his own group that would follow those rules? My point is that nobody is stopping him from investigating in the way he thinks it should be done, but he shouldn’t expect others to do that. If you want something done right, do it yourself, because others may not always agree with your definition of right.
You seem to be confusing science with a bone-headed religion or even worse, some kind of god. Science is a set of rules—nothing more.
..from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science
I like that passage because it directly addresses the bias issue. Of course scientists have biases, they are human are they not?
It’s certainly possible to arrive at a correct result without using science like your “scientist†friends and their patented technologies. Heck, inventors do it all the time. But when doing research in several esoteric fields like biology or physics, it’s not possible to do much more than make patent medicine without strict peer review.
I take your point about skeptic and (believers or whatever label is least offensive.) I tend to stay out of the more rabid believer groups (and I can hear Reagan choking out there.) I’ve found that there is little different between an “I believe in the paranormal group†and a bunch of holy rollers. I’m not saying that there are no rabid skeptics out there (heh! I’m certainly one!) But, most people on the skeptical side don’t seem to have a problem discussing UFOs, the ghost of Aunt Millie, witchcraft or much of anything else. The difference is that most skeptics ask for some kind of citation or a little evidence. That’s where they run into problems because many people expect to be believed without question. They get offended and the sparks start to fly.
I really am astonished to what degree you can miss the point, how faithfully you can take an apple for an orange… how aberrantly facile you can be with regard to not hitting the mark.
“Gentleman”? ROFL!
Even as you, that *gentleman*, and Paul Kimball are succored by the status-quo and pronounce condescendingly from a hijacked mainstream’s bully pulpit, you demonstrate that you are what you accuse, practice what you decry, and believe what you revile. Then, secure in the bosom of your equally errant and unimaginative fellows, you would contrive to sneer…
That’s what gets you and your puddle-deep, homocentric, and baselessly arrogant para-phobes bitch-slapped around cyberspace, Mr. Pettingill. That you and your lot would countenance yourselves as the final arbiter of that which you lack any courage to actually look at, at all, and then contrive to sneer from that cowardly defilade. Take it as you dish it out!
Unbelievable! Tsk… Stop whining, you lot! It makes you look weak.
alienview@adelphia.net
>> http://www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog — http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/
I guess it takes one to know one Alfred. And who’s bitch-slapped me around Cyberspace – ”you? My face is not stinging, how’s yours?
Don’t make me laugh sir!
More flaccid denial, but that’s right, booger-dumpling! The only thing stinging on me is the flat of my literary hand. Just say “ow”, and then turn the other slack-jawed greasy cheek!
//…grow some skin or get a freaking life…//
…Brave talk ’till the tables turn… eh “Pee-wee”?
(“…Takes one to know one,” indeed…)…
alienview@adelphia.net
>> http://www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog — http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/
What? You’re not going to threaten Mr. Pettingill with death this time?
You think entirely too much of yourself Mr. Pettingill. Threatening you with death cannotes you have greater impact than you do.
What should expire? Your intransigence. Your arrogance. Your churlish explication. Your sneering attitude. Your complacency. Your pretended anonymity. Your puddle-deep approach to that of which you have no understanding. Your fatuous smirks. Your pale assertions. Your whiney complaints. Your dearth of manners. Your reflexive disrespect. Your intellectual cowardice. Your paucity of imagination. Your lack of depth. Your inability to think beyond what contrives to humiliate you. Your worship of scientism. Your inability see another view. Your incapacity to conceive of a position not your own. Your slack-jawed incredulity…
I could go on… pass this on to Herr Brock, won’t you?
All the preceding should be burned at the stake in Bruno’s stead… eh?
alienview@adelphia.net
>> http://www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog — http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/
….And you haven’t examined any of those things about Mr. Pettingill, you merely assume, like you always do. Someday you might want to slow down and stop making snap judgments about people Alfred.
In any case, a death threat is a death threat no matter how much dodgy language you choose to put into it. And you seem to be implying here that if Mr. Pettingill was important enough, you would be willing to carry it out.
Or so it would seem.
I should be reported to the authorities immediately then, don’t you think? If for no other reason than that they could have a good laugh, too. Seriously though, threats of bodily harm are serious business, and if you really believe I have threatened you in such a manner you owe it to your family to complain to the police. Swear out a warrant? Initiate a peace bond. Sue me for damages real and imagined. Please do.
And my assertions with regard to you are years in the making Mr. Pettingill. You set the initial tone, and you only reap what you sow, after all. Good show. Suck it up. Be a man!
Amusing, even a string of two word sentences are beyond you. Love and kisses, and wishing you a long _long_ life but sincerely… pound sand well passed your pathetic prolapse.
I’ll check back in tomorrow. TTFN.
alienview@adelphia.net
>> http://www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog — http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/